The Leslie Flint Trust
The Pierre séance
Recorded: September 1st 1963
The Pierre séance
Recorded: September 1st 1963
“There are very few mediums of this calibre...”
Pierre explains that spirits need to learn about communication
and to achieve the best results can sometimes take years.
He says that mediums should be protected,
and they are not like 'slot machines' that can always produce results.
Pierre advises that these communications must not be commercialised,
or used to benefit others materially or exaggerate their own importance.
He says that many people expect mediums to solve
all their problems in life - and some who say they are mediums
allow too much of themselves to enter into a communication.
Information which sometimes seems to come from the spirit world
often only comes from the narrow mind of some mediums themselves...
Some of Pierre's words are quoted by Leslie Flint in the final chapter of his biography 'Voices in the Dark'.
Note: Although this vintage recording has been enhanced for clarity, some interference remains.
Read the full transcript below as you listen to the recording...
Present: George Woods, Betty Greene, Leslie Flint.
Communicators: Pierre, Mickey.
Good morning friend.
I think you understand...
… a great deal of this matter.
Because, uh, a great deal of preparation is made on this side...
...previous to your coming here...
...for there are innumerable people who are brought here, often for the first time, to communicate.
Sometimes we bring people here weeks, weeks beforehand, so that they may have some idea of communication and how it is possible and, in consequence, we have to wait [for] the time when they are sufficiently, uh, knowledgeable to attempt it for themselves.
You know it is, in a way, rather amusing and perhaps a little sad too, the numbers of people in your world who are interested in this subject and who go to a medium such as this, expecting that they will be put in touch with certain people, uh, that they are very anxious to communicate with. What they do not realise is, that it is not as simple as that.
For many people on this side, that would like very much to come and speak, cannot do it or very rarely can they do it at first. It sometimes takes many, many times of coming to witness the phenomena and how it is brought into being, how it is possible to manifest and to transmit one's thoughts from this side into sound, so that you can hear it and record it if necessary on your machine.
You know, the number of people who go to mediums and all they think they have to do is just to sit and the rest will come automatically. It's so foolish. If only they would think about it seriously, they would realise it is not always possible and very rarely indeed possible to... to achieve excellent results the first time.
Sometimes it means they must come various times, a number of times, to sit, so that their own particular friend or friends may become a little more experienced, more able and more free, as it were, in themselves, to be able to communicate - to be able to not only to manifest to... to know how to do it, but to also [know] how to control themselves.
You know, so few people in your world who profess to know a great deal about this subject, uh, do not realise that there are many, many aspects of this whole subject, which to them seems very obscure - indeed many do not even bother to think seriously about it. That is why it is futile to bring people to something of this nature, which is so complex, and expect them to be able to receive manifestation and satisfaction the first time or even perhaps the second time.
When you talk about 'you would like to bring this person' or 'would like to bring that person', that is very good. But at the same time, that person should be made very conscious of the fact that it is always an experiment, uh... that the evidence which is necessary for them to receive may not come the first time of visiting. It may be that they will have to wait many times, for they have got to learn themselves, uh, how to be receptive, how to speak and when to speak and what to say, when they speak
So many sitters, as you call them, are not ready are not experienced enough to know how to get good evidence and often, when good evidence is forthcoming from this side... often the sitter in their ignorance of knowing how to sit and what to do, will spoil it.
Also, people don't realise that on this side, communicators, after weeks and months of learning how to communicate, must also not only know how to communicate, but know what to say. And often, when they know how to communicate, they do not say the things they had intended to say. And if they say the things they have intended to say, which they may think would be good evidence for the recipient of the message, it turns out to be not so.
There are so many facets and many complexities, so many peculiarities about this whole subject of communication. There are so few people, on either side for that matter, [who] know anything about [it]. Only the very experienced guides and the very experienced communicators are in a position to be able to hold a long intelligent conversation.
That is why your sittings are unique and why they are, in many ways, remarkable. And when people listen to your tapes they say, 'oh this is wonderful. Here, there is a long conversation, intelligent conversation, full of personality and character' - and they immediately think if they can be brought up to this medium by you or perhaps arrange it for themselves, that they will sit down and have the same experience as you.
It is ridiculous, because it could not be or would be most unlikely. It has happened, it is true, but it would be most unlikely. These people don't know that it has taken years, in many instances, for you to have your experience - and for the people on this side who have become such excellent communicators and have given such good results, have also been training, have been experiencing and experimenting.
This success of our work with you is because there has been complete and absolute love, complete and absolute harmony, over many years. You have been willing to give freely of your time and made every effort to help us in our work - and we have reciprocated and we have become, as it were, 'a unit'.
People don't understand this. They think they go to [a] medium, all they do is pay their price and they sit down and then everything will be as they want it. It's foolish to think like that. The thing to remember is that good communication - and I'm referring to the kind of communication that is of real value - can only come when sitters sit regularly with the same instrument, where the guides and the people who come from this side, can, over a long period build up [suitable] conditions to such an extent that there is a perfect union, there is perfect harmony. Their vibrations, as it were, are all completely in tune.
The majority of people don't know these things. You bring someone here with you, with all good faith and what would happen? Maybe we would make a very great effort to help that person, which we have done in the past, and that person will go away and say, 'yes that was very interesting' and in some cases they would be very convinced.
But there would be others who would say, 'well I don't know. I did not get so very much and it was not so good. It didn't sound... it didn't seem so good as when Mr Woods and Mrs Greene they play the tapes to me.' You see, one person, no matter how intelligent and well-meaning, because of their lack of experience in this science, which it is, could ruin or make it much more difficult.
That is why, when you two come, it is so different. It is good for you and good for us and good for the work that we are trying to do. That's why I would not suggest that you enlarge your number, no matter how much pressure is brought upon you, for it could be fatal, from the point of view of success, that some one person could disrupt and disturb that which you have helped to build with our cooperation.
A vibration and a communication such as [this], I think is very rare. There are very few mediums of this calibre, quality and this one must be guarded - against himself even. People don't even realise that. They think that a medium is a machine and it is like putting the penny in the slot and the machine automatically responds. It is not so. Even they can be broken. And this instrument and any instrument that could be persuaded to sit all the time for this person or that person, just at the whim and in the moment they desire it, would be futile and it would be most unwise.
That is why we are protecting this medium more and more and more. And not only are we expecting him to do less and less and less, but we are conserving his power so that it can be used as as it has been used, for instance, with both of you - so that you can have the opportunity to obtain subject matter of great interest and value for the whole world - which they can hear just as if they were almost sitting in the room, identically as you hear it.
There is no need for these people to come here. There is no need for them to insist that they should come, because they can hear identically what transpires, under the best possible conditions which you provide, which they in themselves could disturb. We don't want other sitters, we don't want them to be brought here. We don't want them to be allowed to disturb the instrument or the conditions which prevail, which are good, and we can receive, uh, from you sufficient power to... to... to enable us to do this work.
The medium will be forced to do less and less, but he will always, I feel sure, be able to continue to do a few specialised sittings such as this which it is for you. You have been brought into this for purpose, and you know it and it is your task, and you do it with willing love and heart. But you must be careful, even yourselves, that you do not overtax yourselves.
It is so easy for you, even though you are not, in a sense, mediums - in the sense that the medium that I use is a medium - but you are mediums inasmuch that you have been called to service and you are doing this work, you are spreading this truth. You are enabling thousands of people to know something of life after death and communication. You are giving a comfort and realisation, which is necessary and very very much needed in your world.
You are doing your part and I know that you will do it well, as you have done in the past. But you will be persuaded, at least you will be... how you [say?]... you will have people who will try to persuade you to do more. Do what you can, but don't overtax yourself. Your health is necessary to you, to protect yourself it is important. You must not do too much. But I want you when you come here, as you always do, to realise that this is something that we have created together - all of us.
You know some of the souls that come to you, but there are many that you do not know, who have worked for many years in the background and who have their own way of making themselves felt - not by voice personally, not by what they say, because some of them do not even speak to you. But their power is very strong, not only here when you come to sit, but sometimes in your own home when you are busy with your work for spirit, you are being guided and impressed. When you come up against a problem you will receive the impression and the answer.
You will find people in your world who will want to commercialise you, who will want to commercialise this which were trying to do. This you must not allow, this I am sure you will not allow. But at the same time, do not allow yourselves to be trapped into doing certain things which afterwards you could regret, because there will be those who will see in this something which would benefit them materially.
This is a spiritual work we do, we are not concerned with material things, as such. We are concerned with helping humanity to realise the great truth of life eternal. I know that you will play your part, that you will cooperate to the best of your ability. This I know you will do, but there will be those who will want to make use of you.
And in a way I suppose we are all made use of. It is good, in a sense, that we should be, but we must always see that it is the right way and the wise way and the good way. So that, in consequence, we shall serve and do our work from the highest possible level, for that is what we are so concerned about - that this instrument shall be used on the highest possible level and not be used, as he has been so often in the past, often for material and mundane things.
The majority of people are not concerned with the instruments they use. They are not concerned with their well-being or their health.
They are only concerned with themselves. There are far too many selfish people, even among the Spiritualists themselves, who are only concerned with what they are going to get from it in a material sense. They are not concerned with spiritual truths, they are concerned with mundane material things. That is why they ask such mundane material questions appertaining to all sorts of things connected with their business and their love affairs, and what have you.
You know, there is so much of this goes on. In the Spiritualist churches more than 70% of the... of the people are concerned not with the message of spirit, but are concerned with the mundane aspect of whether they will receive a message from this particular person or that, that will tell them what to do perhaps in some very material way.
You know, if you love the people on this side, if you love those who have gone before, those who have made your life perhaps in the past seem very close and very dear to you - if you truly love them you are concerned with their spiritual welfare. You are concerned with their spiritual happiness. You are not concerned so much with your own little mundane problems, that you must bring them all the time to them, expecting them to be able to solve them, when they are far removed from Earthly things.
Surely it is for you to raise yourselves up above the Earth to a higher mental and spiritual level, so that truly you can be in harmony and in tune and in true communication on a spiritual basis. That is what we are doing, that is what you are doing. But many of these Spiritualists, many of these people who are always saying, 'oh, I don't know why I don't develop, I do not know why it is that I don't get very much through' - they don't seem to realise that they are not putting very much into it.
Do people ever realise that if they want to get something that is truly spiritual from this world of ours, that will benefit them and benefit the whole of humanity, that it must be done in the right way - that they must not sit with self in mind, that they are going to do such wonderful things and they are going to be great attractions in the Spiritualist world, on the Spiritualist platforms, that they are going to stand above other people.
You know, the majority of the people who profess to call themselves Spiritualists are not spiritual at all. They are far from spiritual. They are far more materialist and many people who know nothing about the subject. This is a tragedy, but it is true. Why is it that the Spiritualist Movement has not swept the whole world and changed the face of life in your world?
I can tell you why. It is because the Spiritualists are possibly, in many respects, the least spiritual of people. They have a facade, it is true, which deceives some but not many, certainly not this side. We have been... I have been to many Spiritualist groups, I've been to many Spiritualist churches and societies and I know that the average Spiritualist has not yet begun to realise what it means to be truly a Spiritualist in the right sense.
A man who is prepared to give himself completely in love and in service to God, realising the power that flows from the realms of spirit, can so change not only him, but through him possibly eventually the whole of the world .
There are many, many different religions in your world. There are many confusing, conflicting ideas and thoughts. But there is one truth and it is the truth of everlasting life: that all who die, live. And that those who come from this side, who truly desire the welfare of the human race, are concerned with those souls that they can find, here and there, who can be truly used as instruments in the highest sense. And only those who are inclined to forget themselves in true service can hope to be truly instruments in the right sense.
That's why we must protect this instrument, because there are so few. I do not suggest that this instrument is perfect. Who is? We are not perfect, but we know the value of a good instrument and we intend to protect him. We intend to protect that wonderful channel which we have built over many years.
There have been times when we have been so distressed, when we have realised how the power has been used, how it has been abused. But now we are to continue our work and you are very much part of it. And we intend it shall be done in the way that it must be done - in the right way, in the sense that it will be of great value to humanity.
It must not be wasted with the trivialities that so many people would use it for. We have changed, in a sense, many things, but there are yet still things to be changed, which are to benefit the mediumship and the work. But we are grateful to both of you, for you have done a great deal. And you will do much more in the years that yet ahead for you and it will be in complete cooperation, as it has been in the past with us and with the instrument we use.
And I do want you to know we are more than grateful for all that you have done and all that you are trying to do. And above all, we are grateful because you have, like so few have, the true spirit, the true realisation. Your minds are free and open to receive. There are no prejudices there, there are no stumbling blocks that we find with so many who want tie truth - which must always be free - to their own particular brand of religion.
They want to try, if they can, to bring this great truth down to a certain level, which only they can understand and appreciate, because it must be in the confines of their own particular religion or belief or dogma. We have no dogmas, we have no religion in the sense that you understand religion. We have a freedom of expression and a freedom of thought and a freedom of spirit, which is far beyond the confines of man and his pettiness and his foolishness.
We are free to speak the truth and it is because of this that we are happy to come and be able to give it to you. We are not concerned with those sitters who would confine us if they could. We are concerned with those who, like yourselves, who are open to receive.
I agree there may be things that sometimes we say that could be, in a sense, open to criticism. Of course that must be so. There may be things that we say that cannot be easily assimilated or understood. How can they always be expected to be understood, some of the things we say. Because no matter how open your mind, to some extent, you must be affected by the very material conditions in which you live.
But if you progress, as we know you will and others with you, through that open mind where all is possible, you will find that you understand many things, which may seem at times a little obscure at first. But you give us a wonderful opportunity to do the work as it should be done, not as it so often has been done; confined to the narrow thoughts of the instruments that we've had to use. There are many who profess to be instruments, but it is that they are instruments only to a degree.
Often much of themselves enters into the communication. Much has been said and much has been written in your world which has been purported to come from us, but it has not. It has come from the narrow mind, often, of the instrument - who sometimes wishes to force his views or his opinion or ideas upon the world. Sometimes, of course, it is done in ignorance and therefore perhaps, in a sense, it is excusable.
But the person who would be an instrument must be free of dogma, must be free of all the shackles that bind him. And he must realise; only when his heart is open and his mind is ready to receive can truly the spirit of God enter and make him wise.
You my friends, we are very grateful for your love and for all that you have striven to do, and still strive to do. I give my blessing to the world.
Thank you [very much]. Could you give me your name? Is it possible?
Well, there again... you ask for names.
Names, names, names...
I know they don't mean anything, but it's such a wonderful message that...
You may call me Pierre.
Pierre. Oh yes, thank you.
I must go, but we leave you all with our blessing.
Thank you ever so much.
Continue friends with the work for the realm of the spirit. May that realm of spirit come closer to your world. And it can only do that when the minds of those on your side are ready to receive.
Knock, it has been said, and it shall be opened unto you. But how few people in your world truly knock. There are some who gently tap the 'door' and are surprised because no one hears them. And there are those who strive to turn the handle, but it will not open. And there are those who put their whole weight against the door and it flies open, but because they have been brutal - perhaps it is because they have been over anxious and they have put too much weight in the wrong sense, that they have not seen the true vista of the spirit through the open door.
You my friends are good and kind and you do what you can with a good heart and an open mind. And therefore you receive and you in return are able to serve truly, those who seek.
Could you thank for me all those people that have helped us in this work?
Of course I can. They are very conscious of your thoughts. I can tell you this before I go: there are no thoughts that you send out that are not received and there are no requests that you make, that are good, that are not answered. They may not always be answered immediately, for time is not the same with us as it is for you and often obstacles have to be removed. But when they are, the path is made straight for you.
The path is never easy, but at the same time the burdens that you carry you carry not alone. For you are helped continually by the power and the love of the Holy Spirit .
My blessings be with you and goodbye.
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
It was very nice message wasn't it?
Oh, a lovely message, yes. A beautiful message.
END OF RECORDING
This transcript was created for the Trust by K.Jackson-Barnes - August 2020