The Leslie Flint Trust
Recorded: 11am Monday, April 26th 1982
Recorded: 11am Monday, April 26th 1982
"There’s more to our work
than producing personal messages…"
"There’s more to our work
than producing personal messages…"
Mickey explains he has two groups of souls wishing to communicate
and he describes the technical difficulties he faces in trying to blend
the two, so they may communicate effectively with the sitters present…
One group are the family, friends and loved ones of the sitters -
the other is a group of souls who have been in spirit for thousands of years
and inhabit a different realm entirely…
He explains that he wants to help everybody,
but can only do so with absolute co-operation from all sides…
Note: This clear audio becomes quieter in the final minutes of playback.
This is a normal feature of this recording, as the spiritual power begins to fade.
Read the transcript below, as you listen...
Leslie Flint, Bram Rogers, Jean Barratt, D. Sassoon,
Rosalind Cattanach, Hilda Lilley, Rosemary Caplin and Mel Griffin.
Mickey, Unnamed communicator.
[This] séance was recorded on the 26th April 1982. Medium, Leslie Flint.
Can you hear me?
Yes. Yes Mickey. Hello.
[Break in the recording]
...I'm having to make sure I'm getting on, you know. There's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6...
[Laughter - general chatter]
You're doing it to see if the tape's right...
I'm trying to get on the right vibration or whatever you like to call it. Making sure I'm reg-is-ter-ing!
Oh yes. Yes you are, Mickey.
Only I'm not sure if I'm on the right...can you hear me?
[Break in the recording]
...there's another group here today, um, oh dear, hold on... Now I don't want to - there's - it's extraordinary.There's, um, two different levels. I've got to get on to the proper level, otherwise I'm not going to succeed. There's another group of souls here on a different level and, um...oh dear. Sit and hold tight...
Thank you Mickey. Poor Mickey.
No. It's all right, but it's to do with your lot.
To do with your lot? [Laughter]
Who's your lot?
[Break in the recording]
There's a gang of people here, some I know - but there's another group of people, um, that I have seen before from time to time, but they're 'on a different level' - is the only way I can put it.
And um...um, oh dear. I don't want to, um, say the wrong thing, uh, 'course I think in life - on both sides - we have to accept each other and realise we're on different levels and stratas of evolution and development according to our insight and our realisation of life, in its varying degree and form and different levels of consciousness and experience and, um...
But it - it's rather fascinating because there's a specialised group - it's the only way I can put it - who are in a way, not to do with our group, um, who are very anxious to, um, break through or link up and, uh, make communication. But it would obviously have to be on a different vibrational level.
You see, what I'm trying to say is, that if I want to come and talk to you or any of your relations or anyone that, um, is associated or linked with your particular group or person....um, they have to come on to a more material level to make a link or a contact - and especially in the material sense, of being able to register and transmit their thoughts via, as you term it, the mechanism that we have to use, so that you hear what they're trying to say or convey. But this other group, um, they're not, um, really adept at this - I suppose that's the word - but not in this particular form of mediumship.
They come on a very high level of a mental form of communication and for them to transmit on the much lower vibration that we have to work on, poses certain problems. And yet I know that they're anxious to break the barrier and they're anxious to transmit. But, it isn't that we're not prepared to cooperate with them, we are, but it's going to take some time to get the level adjusted or to, um, make possible the more direct communication that they wish to have. And that could carry on for a series, probably, of sessions such as this.
And, uh, it places me in - what you might call in your modern speech - a invidious position, because I want to please everybody and I want to do what is right. And I want to help the souls, you know, the people that you love and the individual contacts, personal - because that's my job and has been my job for donkey's years, you know. But then I've got this other lot...
I mean, huh, and I feel that, um, it rather puts one in a peculiar position. I don't...you see they can't work on the same level, that's what it is. And now, I'm wondering now what to do.
Not what I want to do, but what to do.
Well why don't we ask the group and see?
Let's ask people what - what they want, here and if that's...
Well the point is this, that...
Oh shut up! Got a tizz in your throat?
I am sorry about that. I'm not getting annoyed or nothing.
[Coughing] No, I'm sorry.
But it does, um, sort of - I don't understand...oh dear, oh dear...give me strength! Hold on...
[All speaking at once] Well look, we can wait...Mickey we can wait...allow people to say what they want...is everyone agreeable?
No, you see, the whole point is this - let me put this in a nutshell, um, either this circle, as you term it or group, is wholeheartedly anxious to go on to a higher mental and spiritual level of communication or, you have to accept the obvious fact - to do that, it rather cuts out the personal and the, um...
The point is, that I can only say this, um...that if you want one or the other, you can...I know you might say, 'well surely one can blend the two?' Of course, in a kind of way, one can, um, but I'm rather in a peculiar position because, there's Ken here and a number of other people, obviously, that have been, more or less, regular communicators over the past few years, but...and they of course too are striving on a different level of consciousness - and some of them have obviously progressed beyond the mundane and the material.
But you see, the human element being what it is, and this doesn't apply just to this group - it applies to the vast majority of people who are investigating this subject and who are searching and seeking and hoping for comfort and personal evidence and proof, which is understandable in the early stages of their inquiry.
Now there comes a time when - or should come a time when - people concerned have had their conviction and they've had their realisation that this is true, and that their loved ones have given evidence of varying degree and kind over a period of time...and the point is that on both sides really, there is the desire for getting on to a different level.
Now the other group - apart from the relations and friends - have, some of them, been over here probably thousands of years and they are an entirely different group of souls. They come under an entirely different mental and spiritual level and they would have to bypass, if that's the word, anything to do with the material or the mundane.
But that doesn't mean to say that they're not concerned with the material wellbeing of people on Earth and they're not concerned with uplifting in some shape or form, to the best of their ability, individuals - not only on Earth, but also on our side - who are on what some people might refer to as lower spheres.
Now when we talk about lower spheres, we're not necessarily talking about people who are undeveloped or people who are not, to some extent, spiritually conscious and aware. But the point is that, it's so important for Spiritualists to realise that there's far more to our work than the producing, from time to time, of personal messages.
[Respond in agreement]
You see so many Spiritualists...and the human element is so strong and we understand this, but very few unfortunately, are really concerned with the things of the spirit as such. They expect their loved ones, who are often around and about them, which of course they are - they expect their loved ones to know, more or less, what is happening and what is going on with them. And perhaps at times they think that they can receive, uh, advice on material things - which sometimes of course they can give.
But the point is, that either you're going to stay in limbo - which most Spiritualists are...I'm sorry to say this, but it's perfectly true. They are in limbo. They're neither on one thing or the other. They're in the material world, searching of course, to some extent, and receiving help and upliftment and comfort - but the point is, that they don't get very much further.
They're in a sort of, um, state of being of, well, hovering as it were, between the two worlds and there are a lot of people on this side who are in that state too, because they're between the world and the hier...a hierarchy, if that's the word. I want to help everybody, but I can only do it with complete and absolute cooperation on both sides.
[Break in the recording]
Oh, how does one put it?
That's all right. That's all right Mickey.
You see, each one of you here, are here for a purpose. And I like to think, and I think this is true - fundamentally you're here for spiritual upliftment and enlightenment.
But the deep inner feelings that people must have and which is not bad, is good of course, is the desire for the personal contact with someone who has meant perhaps almost life itself to you. In some cases with some people, it could be perhaps a husband or their son, and this is a wonderful thing in itself and it's something that should be helped and encouraged.
But there comes a point when people on this side, no matter how strong the link is with the mother or the husband or the wife, there is the desire of that individual on this side who has made some progress, to try to bring the realisation of things - to the individual left on Earth - that the material and the mundane, important though it must be while you're still living in your world, is really only the shadow of the reality. The reality is here.
You are living in the shadows. We are trying to bring you a light. We are trying to bring you the illumination of the mind and of the spirit and what it can do, what it can achieve. Not necessarily just because you're knowledgeable in certain things of our world. You see...
[Break in the recording]
...like all organised religions will be made up of all manner and kind of people who have their own particular motive.
But what we want in Spiritualism is the true realisation of the power of the spirit, what it can do, what it can achieve, how it can change people's attitude and their lives, how it can help them to overcome the worst of self and open up their eyes to the things that are truly of the spirit. That we can work closer, on a different level, on a higher rate of vibration, on the spiritual consciousness and awareness of truth.
All the 50-odd years that I've worked with old Flint, you know it's been my job to give them evidence, help them...which has been marvellous and I'm glad I did it, but he's not getting any younger - in fact he's getting antique!
But we can't keep on forever on that level. I'd like to feel that the next few years that are left, that our work can be on the level which we feel is necessary, not just for a few individuals, but for the mass of humanity: that these recordings can be made: that they can be utilised and played and given people the opportunity to receive something of real value.
I mean the personal side, I suppose I shall have to continue to do 'cause it's part of me job and...but what I would like to do, not just me - course, I'm only the mouthpiece of umpteen other people here - we would like to use the mediumship on the level which we feel is necessary and for which we feel justified in, um, being able to do. After having done, well I suppose around about 50 years of service on a certain level, now we'd like to wind up our work...
...with something of a mental and a spiritual nature, which will comfort all humanity, irrespective of class colour or creed. And we don't want to form an organisation. We don't want to form a religious group. We don't want to place any individual in a particular position that they feel that they are superior. Any one or any group that claims superiority or places themselves in a position that they are right and others are wrong, there's something radically wrong somewhere, either with the person who is the exponent or the person who is the head of the organisation.
We are universally seeking for God's 'children' to come together in true harmony, in true peace and tranquility and in love and in harmony - that they may see that they're all part of the divine plan, they're all part of the same spirit, that no one is necessarily, in a sense, better.
There are many, of course, who are more spiritually aware, more spiritually advanced, who can act as teachers, who can act in a capacity of enlightening the less fortunate. But what we want, above all else, is to break down the barriers that man has created by his intolerance, by the fact that he considers his particular attitude of mind or his particular brand of organised religion is right and the rest are wrong.
In all religions there is a basis of truth, there is a germ of truth. But man in his stupidity has created organisations and religious groups who consider that they are right and others are wrong. They build barriers which bring about hatred, malice and intolerance. All the world is suffering from man's stupidity - particularly in a religious sense.
We want to break down barriers, we want to work together in love and in harmony, we want the fundamental truth behind all life to be universal. There will always be individuals, of course, who will make claims, but those who make claims are merely individuals who have been given, to some extent, perhaps, a greater insight than others.
But we are all channels. Everyone is a channel of the divine influence, the divine power. We are so anxious to find channels. And we...you know I...you talk about mediums, you talk about groups, you talk about churches, you talk about societies, you talk about development of the power of the spirit within - and I'm not saying that a great deal of good isn't achieved and done.
We had to develop this medium many years ago, so that he might be used in the capacity to help others - and in that sense I think we have done a good job. But, we have never felt that we have achieved what we might have done, because to some extent we've had to bow down to the will and the demands of people, mostly on your side rather than ours.
Because no matter how ordinary or how humbled, if you like, a person is that leaves your world behind, no matter how strong the love and the affection and the desire for communication might be between the two worlds or the people concerned - even when a person, perhaps on the surface, may seem to have not been a particularly good person, no one is perfect of course...but then, the point is that - in the worst, is much that is good.
And people here, of course they want to receive contact...they want to make contact, they want you to receive their love, they want you to receive their guidance and they want sometimes - indeed they have often come through and apologised - and sometimes they've come through and had many regrets about things they might have done or perhaps things they did do which they realise were wrong. You see, once we have got over the initial stages we want to advance.
[Break in the recording]
He's all right as far as they go. Course, he's not perfect, who is? He's daft.
...Smokes like a drain...what?
...on your side have you met the perfect soul?
Not really, but I've met one or two that to me are perfect. They're not perfect of course; they'd be the last to admit that. But the...the first to admit that, I mean. But the point is that, um, you know, uh, what is perfection anyway? But, um, I've met some fantastic people over here, oh boy! Actually you know, the light from them is absolutely crazy you know. I mean they're, oh how does one put it?
You see, the point is, that no one on this side or for that matter, your side, can enter into a state of being until they have earned it or made it possible by their thoughts and their actions. And then when you get to a certain pitch or a certain point, then you'll begin to register on that level of consciousness. And then you become aware, you see, and these are things that some people don't understand.
You get some people, um, particularly some mediums - I won't mention...well...and the point is, to hear some of them talk, you'd think that they were on a very high level you know, and all the rest of it. Well, I'm not saying...perhaps I shouldn't say, but I don't altogether agree.
But, um...you see, you cannot enter into a state of being until you have helped, in some shape or form, often with the help of others on a higher level, to enter into that state of being. You've got to work at it. You don't suddenly become an angel, just because you want to become one.
You have got to make the path and you've got to tread the path and sometimes you've got to sit by the wayside, because you find that you haven't the energy or the vitality or, call it what you will, or you haven't made it possible, uh, to go further. You get to a certain level and it's rather like the Good Samaritan who helps the less fortunate and impedes, so it seems, his own progress in so doing or reaching a certain goal.
If you have a goal, which everyone should have and it should be of a higher spiritual one, uh, then you must be prepared, sometimes, to be sidetracked. Because sometimes things have to happen, you have to learn certain lessons, you have to make certain sacrifices.
These people who assume that they're going straight ahead and everything is going to be opened up and revealed to them, are stupid. You cannot have anything revealed to you until you yourself have made that a possibility by your thoughts and your actions and your sacrifices.
People don't seem to realise that many of the things that happen to people in the material world they, to some extent, have had to endure because it's necessary for their progression: sometimes even into suffering. But I'm not advocating things that happen in your world that are bad, I mean such as; illness or sickness or cancer or war or whatever it is.
Man, to some extent, creates the situations, creates the conditions. It may be in a previous generation [that] seeds are sown, and the next generation have to face up to the...what has been created by the...faults and stupidity of a previous generation.
You see, you may not think that is fair, but the point is, you are all part of each other. You're part of each other while yet in the flesh. You're part of the past, you're part of the people who came before you. And everything that is happening, to some extent, has to be considered to be of a natural series of consequences and evolution. If man thinks wrong then obviously, to some extent, he will do wrong. And his thoughts and his actions can well affect someone near and dear to him or perhaps someone a thousand or more miles away.
You are all part of each other. Until people get the realisation that, although you're individuals, with individual bodies and you're expressing individual thoughts and actions, you are all basically of the same spirit. You are animating different forms or different bodies and you're expressing various things in different ways.
But until you get the germ of the reality of the spirit, the power of the spirit, the vitality and the living realisation of the spirit, animating you on the highest possible level, then of course there will be tragedies, there will be faults, there will be all sorts of things happening; individually, collectively, in family and outside family, in the world with nations.
The whole tragedy of the world is, it doesn't seem to realise that you are all animated by the same spirit. And it depends so much on how much of that spirit you allow to come through and how much individually and collectively too, you are prepared to give of yourselves and to sacrifice for the higher order of things. Man is basically a spiritual being in embryo.
You are individual to a point. But you're only individual as far as you yourselves will allow yourselves to express yourselves, and until you get the realisation that the living vital force behind all life, is the power of the high spirit itself - which some people refer to God or Jehovah. It's not important what you call the power behind all life - it isn't a character, it isn't a person, it isn't a figure. It's a living vital force which is animating all life, even down into the animal kingdom.
A lot of people don't even think that animals have souls. Well that depends on what you mean by the word soul. But animals are animated exactly the same, yet on a different level, admittedly, but they are animated by the same power and the same force and the same love that affects you all. And, um, I mean, one could go into depth on all this.
If only people would realise that they are individuals to a point, but only to a point - that they can express so much more, not necessarily of the material self, but of the mental and the spiritual. But you've got to open up yourselves to this power and you can do that in various ways.
It's important of course, and it's not easy for people to withdraw from the world, temporarily. I don't mean go and shut yourself in a monastery or a nunnery, because, in a way, that's rather self-centred. What you can do in the quietude and the peace and the tranquility of your own home, for perhaps ten minutes, quarter of an hour, half an hour or...not only individually but with...collectively with people of like mind, you can open up your vision, you can open up your heart, you can open up your soul to the reality which is all around and about you.
There are great souls on this side waiting to pierce the darkness of your world. Ah, but, I mean...alright, I do my job as best I can and my job is obviously to prove the reality of life after death. For some people that's necessary and essential and I think it's a very important job, but it's only...it's only the key that opens the door. And very few people, among the spiritualists in particular, ever put the...ever unlock the door and go in. They'll peer through the bleeding keyhole, but they won't unlock the door.
As long as they can get what they think they need: and I'm not condemning this 'cause it's vital and important, but they seem to stop on the threshold. And this is what worries me. It worries a lot of people on this side. But until you open up yourselves to the reality of what lies behind all our effort and all our work, there will be no real progress, no harmony, no understanding, no true realisation of what we are endeavouring to do.
We are held back by people on your side. This is the truth. Until you step out, as it were, of the body, temporarily into the realm of the spirit, mentally - I don't mean through death - but while yet in the flesh, you open up your heart and your consciousness to what we are trying to do, what we're trying to achieve.
We lead you gradually on the path, but we cannot make you take a step further until you yourself make the effort. You know, there's so much that we want you to know. We want you to realise the potential that you have, what you can do and what you can achieve on your own. Of course we are behind you, but you have the power within. All the great prophets, all the great teachers talked about the power within.
Jesus understood it, Jesus knew of these things, Jesus accomplished and did remarkable things, because he knew the possibility that lay within himself. He knew that he could do all the many things that he did do and he achieved and he said others could do likewise. 'Greater things than these shall ye do, for I go to my father.' Yet nobody has achieved anything comparable to what Jesus did, because they haven't the realisation of the potential within themselves or the power of the spirit.
Carry on and do the best you can. That's all you can ever hope to do anyway. But the point is, grasp the reality of the power and the force and the life and the vitality within, which could overcome all things and help you to accomplish the things of the spirit while yet in the flesh. This is your grounding, this is your birthright, this is your cradle. The material world is the cradle of the soul, the cradle of the power of the spirit.
Use that power, make the most of that power, manifest that power, heal the sick and the suffering. Do the things of the spirit, enlighten man, bring him nearer to the Godhead through the truth that you've discovered.
Mmm. Thank you Mickey. Thank you Mickey.
[Break in the recording]
Our little friend, trying to work on two levels of consciousness at the same time. This is not easy. Behind everything that is done there is a meaning, there is a purpose far removed from the ordinary séance. Of course it is natural, as he has said, to people who will come - and quite rightly - for comfort, for enlightenment, concerning their loved ones. They need the help and the comfort that this truth can bring. They need the message of hope.
This is all a very important part of the work. It is, you might say, in a way, the initial stages. But it is very sad, of course, that very few go beyond this point. They're quite content to communicate with this or that one and to ask the mundane and the ordinary normal questions of life. But it is true there are many souls who gather round you, who are concerned with you in a much deeper way, a much more important way.
We are concerned with the power of the spirit; that it might be manifest within each one of you, that you might see for yourselves, perhaps for the very first time, with the eyes of truth. Now you see, more often than not, through a glass, darkly. And we want you to see face to face of the truth of the spirit, the power of the spirit, the Divine manifest through you and with you; that you might see, know and do these things, of which we so long that you shall do.
Mickey is an extraordinary kind. He comes through to you on a level of, more or less, material sense, as he was... self, as he once was when on Earth - full of humour, good humour. Sometimes he uses expressions which might even surprise some people, who think perhaps he is not on a very spiritual level.
[Break in the recording]
He is on a very high level. He lowers himself down to material for the definite purpose of service.
You, each one of you here, we know individually - better than perhaps you realise we know you. We know that you are treading a path of spiritual endeavour. You are searching and seeking for the things that truly are of God. And we know that to some extent you have found a path and you are treading that path. You are learning on that journey towards spiritual enlightenment and upliftment and realisation.
We are grateful for your patience with us. We are grateful for your love. And we want you to know that when you come here as you do, we shall endeavour, in the future, to work on a different level. That is not easy for some of them to accomplish, but no doubt we shall achieve it. There will be various souls; one or two whose name I cannot and will not mention at this moment, who are behind what is happening. There is a transitional period. There will be a transformation over a period of time with this particular group. You must not be unduly concerned if, temporarily, there may be some omissions.
Uh, I know the human element is such that you long, obviously, for a personal message. We shall not, uh, leave out that.
In other words, occasionally, a little message or a friend or relation will come through and speak. But they too may be used by us.
You know this is an interesting thing. People working on different levels, according to their spiritual enlightenment and advancement, can also be used, in a sense, as mediums or instruments. Maybe like Mickey: he is used. He comes through in a material sense, more at times than others, but he is used by others. Things that he says, some of his way of speech are not peculiar or common to him or would not have been when on Earth. And if someone else is influencing him, he is acting in the capacity of a medium or an instrument. He is the mouthpiece for other souls.
And there are other souls above those souls, who will transmit their message via this method. It is like a chain which binds us all together. Each link is important. There are no weak links in the chain of communication between us and you. There are strengthened chains. There are those whose power is tremendous, and there are those who will come, eventually, when we build up to the level that we want this work to continue and be accomplished - they will be able to come in a way which may even surprise you.
I cannot and I must not make promises. It may not necessarily only be by speech. It is feasible it could be in another direction altogether. Might even be a visual one. We have to bear in mind the medium's health. We have to bear in mind that he cannot be expected to be used in the same way or to the same extent that he was in the past. But what we want to do in the remaining years of our instrument, is to use him on the highest possible level for spiritual upliftment and enlightenment, so that the Earth peoples shall receive guidance and instruction of a high order.
You are our friends. You are the group that we feel best we can work with. But it is important that you attend together regularly, that you put aside, if only temporarily, any personal thought or motive or idea - that you work together as a group in harmony and in love, for all that we might be able to give you that will be beneficial - not just only to yourselves, but to the world.
I have been many years with this instrument, in the background. I have not wanted particularly to push myself forward. Because my work, as indeed the work of many other souls here, is completely and absolutely unselfish. We do not concern ourselves with self. Indeed, I would say in parting, the only way that anyone will find their true self, is when they first lose themselves. So many people cling to many things which they think are vital and important in themselves. Maybe they feel it's an essential part of their personality.
But many of these things are, by their very nature, illusionary. The reality is something quite different. We want to show you the reality of the spirit. We want to demonstrate to you the reality of the spirit, which we shall yet hope to do in this room. But we need you. We need your love. We need your patience. We need your perseverance in everything that we are trying to do, to work in complete harmony. If, and I'm sure we shall have that cooperation, all manner of kind of things may yet happen.
I want you to be patient with us and know that all that we do together is not for self, but it is for the peoples of the Earth - not only of one generation, but all generations that may yet come to see the light of God's love for his children.
This is our task. This is our work. This is our life - to open the eyes of those who cannot see, that they may see with a clarity of vision the things that are hidden from those, who by their very nature, have built...
[Break in the recording]
The power wanes. We must go. I will leave you with our love. Peace be unto you. Peace, peace, peace. Blessings.
Come another night. I'll see you next month.
Thank you. Thank you Mickey.
Bye-bye Mickey. Bye Mickey.
Bye-bye. Keep your chin up.
Yes. We will!
END OF RECORDING
This transcript was created for the Trust by Lorie McCloud - August 2017